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Over Coffee
I never know what I’m going to hear when I go into someone’s house for one of these Over Coffee interviews. Last week, though, I was pretty certain I was in for a treat. I had interviewed Charles Turner in April before his trip to Jerusalem, where he planned to research for his master’s degree in disaster management from Philadelphia University.
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| Penny Fletcher Photo
Charles and Charlotte Turner of Sun City Center recently returned from a seven-week trip to Israel. Charles, who teaches disaster management around the world, was there studying the mindset of terrorists and how to better prevent attacks. Charlotte, however, has been there seven times and has friends all over the area. |
He’s taught enough disaster management classes- to military personnel, FEMA workers, and for the Department of Homeland Security. Still, he wanted to get his paperwork in order so he stepped back in time and became a student again, while continuing to teach.
In April we talked about his past experiences in world affairs, so I really wasn’t thinking about this column when I was invited back. Mostly, I was just interested in hearing about the most recent developments in Arab-Israeli life as someone who has been involved in biblical studies for more than forty years.
But things never go as planned, and before I knew it, I had my word processor out and was taking notes like mad.
Charles and his wife, Charlotte, recently spent seven weeks in Israel together. It was his first trip and his wife’s seventh. It was the first time they had traveled there together.
The first time I was at the Turners, I was so intent on getting the details of Charles’ disaster classes straight I didn’t ask any questions of Charlotte.
As it turns out, she is quite the traveler, with friends in many parts of the world, including several sections of Israel.
I use the word “sections” because of the way she describes life there- especially in their favorite city, Jerusalem.
It’s hard to imagine a city so crowded you have to elbow your way through the narrow cobblestone streets. Or families that look at raising 10 or 12 children (or more) as a normal way of life.
Charlotte also described many people walking along the streets as dressed in black, with only their eyes showing, the rest of their heads and bodies being thoroughly covered in hot, flowing robes. Not just Arabs, but people of all races are often completely covered, she explained.
And just about everybody carries a gun. Some are visible, and others are not.
“Since the killing of the Jewish children a few years back,” Charles explained, every line of children you see out on the streets has a gunner in the front and a gunner in the back. The law says they can’t keep one (a clip) in the chamber, so they can’t go off without purposeful action. But that ‘purposeful action’ can be accomplished in about 3 seconds.”
It’s dangerous to go out of the area where you “belong” without an escort. In other words, when in the Jewish area, be with a Jew. When in the Arab area, be with an Arab. And be extra careful at the Holy Sites – and there are many – because Christians, Muslims and Jews all claim their space and often kneel or lie down and worship on these sites.
“You could easily be trampled if you aren’t extremely careful,” Charlotte said.
I loved seeing pictures of people praying at the Western Wall, the only remaining wall of the original Solomon’s Temple. Over the years so many scraps of paper have been pushed into the cracks they probably number in the hundreds of thousands. And to think about walking the Via Delarosa, where Jesus Christ is said to have carried his cross. I have always wished I had made it to Israel while stationed overseas as a military dependent in the 1960s, which made their trip seem to me almost a magical undertaking.
Yet amidst all this religious worship and holy sites, the possibility of a bombing is a reality of everyday life.
It is easier to recruit suicide bombers than we would think, because we do not think the same way as those who choose that path do, Charles explained.
“Because of the (extremists) culture. If an Arab woman is seen with a man, or is with a man, or is even raped- she has dishonored her family. So it is often easier to recruit a woman for these assignments than a man. And men cannot marry unless they have a dowry, which takes money. And of course- they teach that there can be no sex without marriage. Many are depressed. They have no sex, no money and no jobs. It is a very simple matter if they’ve been told from childhood that they will be rewarded with a wonderful place in paradise – and be given 70 virgins– if they die for Allah.”
Charles makes it clear this is the extremist way, not the general way of Muslims or of their Holy Book, the Koran, which teaches that all people should live in peace.
“It is only those who are taught from the time they are 2 or 3 years old that everyone who is not like them is an infidel and is to be hated. It is hard to imagine being taught that kind of hate unless you have seen it first-hand,” he said.
An obvious problem to any who go there is that three major religions lay claim to the holy spots. And there are so many check points it is very difficult to move around the city.
It is even harder for those who live there. No wonder tempers flare.
“What people don’t see on television is that a Palestinian can have a home on one side of a checkpoint and a farm on the other so that it takes hours to get to his business, or perhaps just to the other side of his own property,” Charles said.
Well, we may not see that on television but there are certainly enough cameras in Jerusalem.
“There are over 400 television cameras just in the old city,” Charlotte said. “They’re even in the restrooms. You can’t see them, but they can see you and you are made very aware of it.”
The cameras and military guards are all part of growing area security.
After years of studies, and hundreds of pages of research, and his recent visit, escorted by high-ranking Israelis, Charles does not attempt to have an answer to the Arab-Israeli land dispute.
“I’ve been over there seven times,” Charlotte said. “Yet I am always fascinated. I have learned how to get along. I have friends in Tel Aviv and in the Old City (Jerusalem). I know some who have been on the same land for nine generations. The Israelis have done a marvelous job with the agriculture. Made things grow. They’re beautiful and lush in such a desert. I am always amazed.”
Another thing I did not know (even after having really, really good history and geography teachers) is that Bedouins, just like those in the biblical Old Testament, still exist and do not consider themselves either Arabs or Jews.
“They are still nomadic,” Charlotte said. “They travel on camels and live in tents and wear their veils, just like they did thousands of years ago. The largest band of them I have seen was probably 60 or 70 people.”
Mostly, the Bedouins are goat herders, she said. They also make and sell arts and crafts in markets on their travels.
The one thing Charles wanted to do while there that he did not get to do was interview Arabs arrested for terrorist acts to find out more about the terrorist mindset, but his visit to the political prison was cancelled.
Although Charles claims to have coffee ready all day, on this visit I did not even ask for it. I was way too engrossed in the places the two pointed out on a large map of Jerusalem, as they described what each site was and what happened there as part of the residents’ everyday life.
*Perhaps you have something you’d like to share. Or maybe you’d rather tell the community about your favorite charity or cause: or sound off about something you think needs change. That’s what “Over Coffee” is about. It really doesn’t matter whether we actually drink any coffee or not (although I probably will). It’s what you have to say that’s important. E-mail me any time and suggest a meeting place. No matter what’s going on, I’m usually available to share just one more cup.
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